Small amounts of animal foods: Yes or No?
In this series, we ask vegans engaged in different kinds of activism a question, and post their responses, to show a diversity of perspectives on the same topic. This is not a forum for ‘professional experts’ and thought leaders, but a space for community voices. Join the discussion below in the comments.
Last week PETA posted a note advising vegans to eat small amounts of animal products when dining at non-vegan restaurants. They used a couple of examples: a tiny bit of a dairy product in the bun of a veggie burger and not “grilling” the wait staff about whether your order is grilled on the same grill as meat. They say this makes a vegan diet look difficult and dogmatic, which will discourage others from going vegan. Kathy Freston advocates eating 2 percent animal ingredients when dining out in her book Veganist and in a contributed essay for Kris Carr’s book Crazy Sexy Diet. She’s talking about small amounts of butter, whey, or other animal ingredients in the bun your veggie burger is served on. Do you agree that vegans should not worry about small amounts of animal ingredients in your restaurant food? What are the implications if a large percentage of vegans decided to take PETA’s and Kathy’s advice?
Worry…what a foreign concept to associate with my veganism, a way of life that makes me so utterly happy and proud. I don’t identify with the word whatsoever when it comes to how I eat, how I order, or who I might imagine is judging my requests at a restaurant (human minds tend to overestimate this kind of thing anyway). I’ve chosen this vegan life with intent and purpose and so I live it wholeheartedly – not sometimes, not a little, but always. Committed to the cause in this way, I am more Malcolm X and MLK than Booker T. Washington. As in the aforementioned news, there are enough Booker Ts in the vegan movement already who support people in maintaining, “just a little,” the status quo. This is simply not what I aspire to.
The only times that worry comes into play in this sector of my life is in hindsight of a missed opportunity where I could have spoken up for veganism and animals, could have helped educate someone misinformed or unacquainted with our tenets, could have… but didn’t. We should worry in these cases! I should “worry” (with active concern) about those moments where I am not living according to my own virtues or the courage I seek to possess. By examining those flawed moments, I will grow and they will happen less and less. I will be able to help more animals and open more hearts in the long run.
So in my opinion, Freston and the PETA note are wrong, we should worry. But not in the sense they mean. We shouldn’t worry that restaurants will despise us, that friends will think we’re dogmatic, etc. We should worry if we’re not living according to the virtues we hold dear. We should worry if we’re eating two percent animal products in a restaurant so as to make the host feel comfortable. And we should worry as well if we’re behaving like aggressive idiots towards an unaware waitress instead of politely making a vegan request or offering suggestions for more vegan options (if they can’t meet your request, politely order something else). You never know the kind of seeds your thoughtful words and choices might plant. What makes an effective activist is the ability to read an audience and relate – in an intelligent, tailored way – what you know, so that we are heard, not hidden.
Ruby Roth is an artist, writer, and activist living in Los Angeles, California. She is the author of That‘s Why We Don‘t Eat Animals, the first children’s book to address the emotional lives of animals, factory farming, the environment, and endangered species
Asking vegans to temporarily betray their ethics and partner with their adversaries in order to avoid being seen as a nuisance is libelous, confusing and damaging to the positive results of the vegan movement. It is not viable to the liberation of animals to willfully consume the products that oppress them. Sensitivity is one thing, but fundamental change is another.
It’s important to understand that the process of change is slow and unpredictable, and that one thing is certain: it will always be met with friction. I refuse to reconcile my desire to change the world with my desire to simply survive it. If you’re concerned with social etiquette when ordering vegan food, I encourage you to try the cruelty-free (and apparently overlooked) approach of simply using your manners; after all, no animals are harmed in the process of using those.
Elissa Sursara
Actress and animal rights activist, Twitter
I think this not only sets a dangerous precedent of a cavalier attitude towards animal-based ingredients, but it also trivializes the essence of veganism. It is more than just a diet, or even a lifestyle; it is the living practice of animal rights, and as such, it is not a mere exercise in purity. Instead, it is a practice of ensuring justice – justice for the animals that are confined, tortured and killed by industries that exploit them.
As in any other justice movement seeking to redress the wrongs of oppression, there is nothing trivial about anything that ultimately denies beings of their inherent rights; it is our responsibility to counter offhand racist remarks, for instance, even if there is no one else around who might be affected by it, because it serves to educate the person that even such seemingly trivial actions serves to normalize oppression. By the same token, insisting a restaurant or a manufacturer ensure that there are no animal ingredients at all will educate them that veganism is a practice of principle. If we don’t insist on strict adherence to a principle, then industry will not take us seriously and not bother to change its practices and methods.
What PETA and Kathy Freston suggest sets a bad precedent; it’s similar to a chef telling you that you should accept a dish that has “just a tiny amount of meat.” It shows a lack of respect for the ethics behind veganism. And while at a personal level it may seem inconsequential, small numbers do add up. If every vegan does as what PETA and Kathy suggests, that will ensure a large steady demand for animal-derived ingredients, with the resulting suffering as the consequence.
Now granted, the price of living in an industrialized society today is that no-one can live entirely completely 100 percent vegan, but again, the point is not about purity, but about justice; we have to strive, as much as we can, to achieve the kind of change to ensure justice for all beings, and if that can include modifying the methods of industry to not have any animal-based ingredients at all, then that is something we have a responsibility to demand.
Peter Keller
Elected member of the Board of Directors, Northwest Animal Rights Network
Campaign founder and director of the Vegan Mentor Program
What rescue can suffering animals expect when even “animal rights” organizations and “vegan” authors casually announce that a little bit of cruelty is okay? PETA defines vegans by their intentions, not their actions. You can assert you are vegan as long as you eat animal foods only when it would be inconvenient not to. You make choices based on a terror of what other people will think, rather than on your own principles. You set a role model of “well, I’m vegan, kind of, not really sure why.”
Even if you are focused mostly on your own health, a little bit CAN hurt. Some things are good in moderation, like sunshine, exercise, food, and sleep. Others are best at a zero dose, like smoking, addictive drugs, mercury, asbestos, DDT, diesel exhaust, and animal protein. Even small amounts cause damage.
If you are motivated by kindness to animals and to the earth, the advice to be a casual vegan makes even less sense. Once people tell themselves it’s okay to eat animal foods in restaurants, the tendency is for this state of mind to balloon, until being plant-based becomes a distant memory. The greatest rewards for being vegan are the peace of mind and kinship with animals that spring from NEVER participating in suffering. Even one thoughtless bite of animal ingredients rips a hole in this inner peace that will devastate your world. Is the convenience worth the price? (Explore the joyful inner peace a day with rescued animals brings in this blog post.)
Janice Stanger, Ph.D.
Author of The Perfect Formula Diet: How to Lose Weight and Get Healthy Now With Six Kinds of Whole Foods
I went out and sat with our three rescued calf boys this morning. I felt at ease with them because since going vegan three years ago, I had done as much as I could to avoid animal products in the things I buy. Beyond not wanting to put even trace amounts of the suffering of these boys’ brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers into my body, I also want to support products that make the effort to not include animal ingredients, and patronize restaurants that provide that with which I want to nourish myself.
Whenever I visit a restaurant, unless I happen to be at one of L.A.’s raw food restaurants, I always have to make substitutions and alterations since I eat predominantly living foods. I apologize in advance to my server for being the difficult one, but I let them know what I really want in my meal, and almost always they are gracious. If not, I will give my money elsewhere. I look at requesting items without animal ingredients as a form of education. Most times I feel that people are surprised at where animal ingredients show up, and in what forms.
I do not think making veganism “easier” will be accomplished by accepting trace amounts of animal products, I think it will make it weaker and less discussed and ultimately remove some demand for products fully without animal ingredients. My calf friends do not want to eat parts of their relatives, and nor do I.
Cameron O’Steen
Education & Outreach Liaison, Animal Acres, a farmed animal sanctuary and compassionate living center based north of Los Angeles
As vegans, we unintentionally consume non-vegan things all the time, whether it is parts of dead bugs that end up in cereal from the cereal manufacturing plant, or a dessert a well-meaning non-veg friend made for us that has something in it that they didn’t realize was an animal byproduct. Vegans who dine at non-vegan restaurants should expect animal byproducts in their food. It is done unintentionally when the restaurant kitchen staff get rushed and doesn’t remember to modify the meal, or because the restaurant staff are unaware of what vegan means. We all think everyone knows because we know, but the reality is that a very small number of people truly know what the word vegan means, including some honey-eating vegetarians. I think vegans should try to convey to the waitress and waiter what veganism is, not just for the selfish purpose of getting a vegan meal for themselves, but to help other vegans who will dine there in the future.
I usually say to the waiter or waitress, “I’m going to be trouble, but hope you can help me.” This is said with a smile. I proceed to tell them I’m vegan and explain what that means in one short sentence (they aren’t looking for the history of veganism). I then say, “what would you recommend I order that is vegan?” Reminding them that I’m vegan reinforces the term. When they make a recommendation, they usually say “I really like this item,” and I jokingly say, “well I definitely don’t want it if you like it” (again said with a smile). Then I almost order what they recommend, unless it has things I hate like sprouts. The server always asks later in the meal if I liked what they recommended, and the whole experience is pleasant for everyone. It is a collaborative effort and the server is happy to help the customer find something that works.
I don’t like the idea of vegans ever intentionally eating non-vegan items to please people. Most of us did that when we were first becoming vegetarian; we kept eating meat occasionally just to please our family or our friends. As we become more honest with ourselves about what we care about, we have an obligation to be honest with others. The worst thing is to be viewed as a hypocrite. If you say you care about animals, but go out and buy a nice new car with leather interior or can’t give up your favorite silk tie or leather shoes, that will bother people. Along with that, if you say you love animals, but are mean to most people you interact with, you are similarly doing a large disservice to animals. Deciding to not intentionally participate in a system of oppression is what we are all supposed to do, so baby steps are fine, but going backwards hurts animals and hurts us as individuals.
Vegans shouldn’t listen to PETA, Kathy Freston, or me, they should decide for themselves what makes sense – and what makes sense should always be doing what is in the best interest of the animals for whom we are supposed to be advocating. Exploiting a chicken for an item with a little bit of egg, so our friends can order ten seconds sooner (because we aren’t asking questions) isn’t creating a future vegan at the dinner table and isn’t helping the chicken. I’ve never been at a dinner where the vegan who didn’t ask questions about the bread got their meat-eating friend to give up steak for that meal. The way we get people to give up meat is by educating them about the issues, not by eating a little bit of whey and eggs.
Prahbat Gautam
Co-Founder, Los Angeles Veg Society
Comments
- Everything Counts in Small Amounts « I ♥ AR - [...] by Kris Carr. He asked me, among others in the vegan and animal rights community, to provide a response,…
- Everything Counts in Small Amounts « I ♥ AR - [...] by Kris Carr. He asked me, among others in the vegan and animal rights community, to provide a response,…
- Elissa in The Thinking Vegan Consortium on TTV | Elissa Sursara Conservation - [...] has participated in prominent animal activist Gary Smith‘s TTV ‘Consortium’, offering insights into the [...]
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Kait Leonard
May 10, 2011
Perhaps we can take this attitude with all issues… A little child molestation, a little rape, a little murder. We don’t want people to feel like ethical behavior is difficult or extreme.
Curran Beard
May 10, 2011
This OUTRAGES me. Vegan (I say again for the gazillionth time) is NOT a “diet” ~ if it were, then a few extra calories dont matter ~ I’ll make up for it tomorrow. Vegan is more akin to one’s religion. It is about ethics, principles, values amd morals. A decent human being does not compromise on that level. Already there is too much compromise on planet Earth. It is how a corporation can ransack the resources, leaving toxic pollution in their wake and still have grandchildren and incredulously, not feel any guilt.
If we dont make waves, we wont be noticed. Well, I’m not a person with a bad odor or a scared face ~ I’m proud; I WANT to be noticed. I want to be so noticed, that people will read-up on veganism and be more aware of its growing importance. Kathy Freston is a coward and a sell-out. And I am a member of long-standing in Vegans Against PETA, though I try to refrain from being anti-things, and prefer to put my energy into PRO-something, but PETA is just too, too appalling.
I will proudly ask at a restaurant if they accomodate vegan requirements. Kosher requires separate cooking utensils, and nobody finds THAT to be unreasonable. Equality ~ its only right. Either this world becomes vegan fairly soon, or this world will be worthless ~ we NEED to stand strong.
Curran Beard
May 10, 2011
This OUTRAGES me. Vegan (I say again for the gazillionth time) is NOT a “diet” ~ if it were, then a few extra calories dont matter ~ I’ll make up for it tomorrow. Vegan is more akin to one’s religion. It is about ethics, principles, values amd morals. A decent human being does not compromise on that level. Already there is too much compromise on planet Earth. It is how a corporation can ransack the resources, leaving toxic pollution in their wake and still have grandchildren and incredulously, not feel any guilt.
If we dont make waves, we wont be noticed. Well, I’m not a person with a bad odor or a scared face ~ I’m proud; I WANT to be noticed. I want to be so noticed, that people will read-up on veganism and be more aware of its growing importance. Kathy Freston is a coward and a sell-out. And I am a member of long-standing in Vegans Against PETA, though I try to refrain from being anti-things, and prefer to put my energy into PRO-something, but PETA is just too, too appalling.
I will proudly ask at a restaurant if they accomodate vegan requirements. Kosher requires separate cooking utensils, and nobody finds THAT to be unreasonable. Equality ~ its only right. Either this world becomes vegan fairly soon, or this world will be worthless ~ we NEED to stand strong.
Christy
May 10, 2011
I’m really quite shocked that PETA and Kathy said this! Eating at a non-vegan restaurant gives us the opportunity to educate and hopefully get them to offer more vegan options, so pound them with questions! Get them thinking, help them understand that more people want these options. That’s the only way we are going to see things change. Change doesn’t happen by being quiet and knowingly ingesting animal foods. Bleh!!
Christy
May 10, 2011
I’m really quite shocked that PETA and Kathy said this! Eating at a non-vegan restaurant gives us the opportunity to educate and hopefully get them to offer more vegan options, so pound them with questions! Get them thinking, help them understand that more people want these options. That’s the only way we are going to see things change. Change doesn’t happen by being quiet and knowingly ingesting animal foods. Bleh!!
Jeff Boghosian
May 10, 2011
As an alternative point of view, I think it’s okay to eat small amounts, especially if it’s from a grill or trace amounts in bread. By cleaning the grill, we aren’t reducing suffering or killing less animals. Whey is often an ingredient in processed breads, but avoiding it will do little to reduce the dairy industry since it’s a by product. We’d be better off getting people to consider other ‘milks’. Here’s more: http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html
Jeff Boghosian
May 10, 2011
As an alternative point of view, I think it’s okay to eat small amounts, especially if it’s from a grill or trace amounts in bread. By cleaning the grill, we aren’t reducing suffering or killing less animals. Whey is often an ingredient in processed breads, but avoiding it will do little to reduce the dairy industry since it’s a by product. We’d be better off getting people to consider other ‘milks’. Here’s more: http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html
Kelly
May 10, 2011
The only thing that makes being vegan look “hard” or difficult are these animal rights and vegan groups that claim being totally vegan can pose a challenge. They need to focus their efforts more on demonstrating how eating vegan is actually very easy and accessible. I have been vegan for almost 9 years, before there were many of the alternatives that exist today, and even then, there was nothing hard about it. To suggest that it is challenging or difficult insinuates that we, as vegans, are giving up food that we wish we could eat. That, inherently, is fallacious reasoning because ethical vegans don’t perceive veganism as a personal sacrifice; we don’t think of what we’re “giving up.” Ethical vegans don’t feel as though they are giving up anything. To think of veganism as a sacrifice is to come at it from a place of selfishness; whereas, veganism is about stepping outside of oneself and thinking of others and embracing compassion. How can caring about other living beings be perceived as a sacrifice or a struggle? As a vegan, there is nothing I have given up, but I have gained more than I can ever explain.
Tricia Sutton
May 10, 2011
No amount of animal ingredients is okay. An animal died. If someone wanted to use 2% of my dead body and call themselves vegan, I would mind a great deal.
Tricia Sutton
May 10, 2011
No amount of animal ingredients is okay. An animal died. If someone wanted to use 2% of my dead body and call themselves vegan, I would mind a great deal.
Tricia Sutton
May 10, 2011
Kait – you are SO right!!!!!
“Perhaps we can take this attitude with all issues… A little child molestation, a little rape, a little murder. We don’t want people to feel like ethical behavior is difficult or extreme.”
Tricia Sutton
May 10, 2011
Kait – you are SO right!!!!!
“Perhaps we can take this attitude with all issues… A little child molestation, a little rape, a little murder. We don’t want people to feel like ethical behavior is difficult or extreme.”
Chef AJ
May 10, 2011
and let’s tell people with allergies that they should eat 2% of food with allergens and not be so dogmatic. I work at a restaurant and if you are paying for food you should get what you want and not think of it as inconvenient or diifficult. How about how difficul and inonnvenient it is for the animals being tortured and slaughtered.
I am so suprised that PETA is taking this position. Since when do they compormise? I don’t believe that people do not become vegan because of the “inconvemience”. They become vegan because they are compassionate or passionate about their health, the environment and/or the animals.
If we start turning the other cheek now on small amounts of animal products, where do we draw the line? So it was OK for McDonald’s to use lard to coat their fries since they were, afterall, frying in veggie oil?
I think Kathy Freston is a lovely person who does much good but I was disappointed at here moderating the FOK screening. People were genuinely trying to understand from the experts (Dr. Campbell and Dr. Esselstyn) about why ALL OILS are harmful. They were trying to answer and she kept ignoring them saying “so the take home message is don’t eat meat”? Is the new take home message now “don’t eat meat, but if you do, make sure it’s no more than 2% of your total meal”. I have just one question WWQGD? (What would Quarry Girl DO)?
Love & Kale,
Chef AJ
Chef AJ
May 10, 2011
and let’s tell people with allergies that they should eat 2% of food with allergens and not be so dogmatic. I work at a restaurant and if you are paying for food you should get what you want and not think of it as inconvenient or diifficult. How about how difficul and inonnvenient it is for the animals being tortured and slaughtered.
I am so suprised that PETA is taking this position. Since when do they compormise? I don’t believe that people do not become vegan because of the “inconvemience”. They become vegan because they are compassionate or passionate about their health, the environment and/or the animals.
If we start turning the other cheek now on small amounts of animal products, where do we draw the line? So it was OK for McDonald’s to use lard to coat their fries since they were, afterall, frying in veggie oil?
I think Kathy Freston is a lovely person who does much good but I was disappointed at here moderating the FOK screening. People were genuinely trying to understand from the experts (Dr. Campbell and Dr. Esselstyn) about why ALL OILS are harmful. They were trying to answer and she kept ignoring them saying “so the take home message is don’t eat meat”? Is the new take home message now “don’t eat meat, but if you do, make sure it’s no more than 2% of your total meal”. I have just one question WWQGD? (What would Quarry Girl DO)?
Love & Kale,
Chef AJ
Janaki
May 10, 2011
Meat makes me ill; dairy makes many other people sick. For several days. Plus it tastes icky. Should vegetarians and vegans make themselves ill just so someone else (whose viewpoint is, actually, the dominant paradigm) won’t feel uncomfortable or so someone — who is paid to make food for us customers — won’t have to work so hard. Get real. PETA messed up on this one.
Janaki
May 10, 2011
Meat makes me ill; dairy makes many other people sick. For several days. Plus it tastes icky. Should vegetarians and vegans make themselves ill just so someone else (whose viewpoint is, actually, the dominant paradigm) won’t feel uncomfortable or so someone — who is paid to make food for us customers — won’t have to work so hard. Get real. PETA messed up on this one.
Rhea
May 10, 2011
Suggesting that Vegans eat 2% animal products in order to not scare off potential Vegans because they might find being Vegan difficult and/or restrictive is the same as advertising that it is, in fact, difficult and restrictive.
If “ethical Vegans” are willing to compromise on their ethics, how can we ever expect the rest of the world to take our values seriously? When we say “Oh, it’s just some egg whites or whey in the bread. That’s ok,” then other people will put animal products in front of us and say “It’s just some chicken broth or anchovy paste. That’s ok.” Well, it is not ok.
I can’t say that I am ever surprised by anything PETA does. I appreciate and admire all the good they have done and the fights they have fought while at the same time I shake my head at some of their other campaigns. Vegan Outreach gives the same advice yet they were instrumental in my becoming Vegan. Kathy Freston, well…I was never happy with her use of the term “vegan-ish” or her not saying anything while Martha Stewart poured honey into a recipe. If she is going to have a #1 ranked book and be the face of Veganism to the mainstream, then she has a responsibility to educate people properly and accurately about what it means to be a Vegan.
If we are going to worry about what other people think of us, we should worry that they will see we are not showing conviction in our ethics. We should worry that they will only take Veganism and animal suffering as seriously as we do.
Rhea
May 10, 2011
Suggesting that Vegans eat 2% animal products in order to not scare off potential Vegans because they might find being Vegan difficult and/or restrictive is the same as advertising that it is, in fact, difficult and restrictive.
If “ethical Vegans” are willing to compromise on their ethics, how can we ever expect the rest of the world to take our values seriously? When we say “Oh, it’s just some egg whites or whey in the bread. That’s ok,” then other people will put animal products in front of us and say “It’s just some chicken broth or anchovy paste. That’s ok.” Well, it is not ok.
I can’t say that I am ever surprised by anything PETA does. I appreciate and admire all the good they have done and the fights they have fought while at the same time I shake my head at some of their other campaigns. Vegan Outreach gives the same advice yet they were instrumental in my becoming Vegan. Kathy Freston, well…I was never happy with her use of the term “vegan-ish” or her not saying anything while Martha Stewart poured honey into a recipe. If she is going to have a #1 ranked book and be the face of Veganism to the mainstream, then she has a responsibility to educate people properly and accurately about what it means to be a Vegan.
If we are going to worry about what other people think of us, we should worry that they will see we are not showing conviction in our ethics. We should worry that they will only take Veganism and animal suffering as seriously as we do.
Brian
May 10, 2011
I agree with the one statement that we shouldn’t worry about a grill or a pan that might have had meat in it. However, I draw the line at saying we should go ahead and eat 2% meat products. I don’t worry about buns or bread when I’m eating out, but at the same time I don’t order ‘cheese’ on my bread simply to be convenient to the person making it. I try to remember the types of bread up front that will need eggs in them and simply don’t eat them. However if I have a slice of bread on my plate, I don’t yell at the waiter and say tell me exactly what is in this.
I think there are some who want veganism to be a militant lifestyle, where we not only worry about the animals but beat ourselves up when we make a mistake. I don’t want animals in my food, and I don’t want their byproducts. Now if I were to eat something and find out later that it has honey in it? I won’t beat myself up for mistakenly eating it, but I will remember that product and not order/sample it again.
I live in an environment with many meat eating people. I don’t expect them to have a pan or grill that hasn’t had meat on it. I won’t however say, yeah go ahead and put some bacon grease on those greens for me.
Brian
May 10, 2011
I agree with the one statement that we shouldn’t worry about a grill or a pan that might have had meat in it. However, I draw the line at saying we should go ahead and eat 2% meat products. I don’t worry about buns or bread when I’m eating out, but at the same time I don’t order ‘cheese’ on my bread simply to be convenient to the person making it. I try to remember the types of bread up front that will need eggs in them and simply don’t eat them. However if I have a slice of bread on my plate, I don’t yell at the waiter and say tell me exactly what is in this.
I think there are some who want veganism to be a militant lifestyle, where we not only worry about the animals but beat ourselves up when we make a mistake. I don’t want animals in my food, and I don’t want their byproducts. Now if I were to eat something and find out later that it has honey in it? I won’t beat myself up for mistakenly eating it, but I will remember that product and not order/sample it again.
I live in an environment with many meat eating people. I don’t expect them to have a pan or grill that hasn’t had meat on it. I won’t however say, yeah go ahead and put some bacon grease on those greens for me.
sharron
May 10, 2011
I think it is a crying shame that PeTA, an influential organisation, would suggest such a thing (doesn’t surprise me though). I simply do not eat anything that is not vegan. If a product is in front of me & I do not know its ingredients I do not eat it including a slice of bread that may or may not have eggs. I simply won’t eat it. It doesn’t have to be to be a big deal I just won’t eat it. I do not care what my behaviour does to the vegan movement I care about what my behaviour does to the other animals. 2% animal ingredients or a ‘leg of lamb’ is no different. Respect for the animals 100%
sharron
May 10, 2011
I think it is a crying shame that PeTA, an influential organisation, would suggest such a thing (doesn’t surprise me though). I simply do not eat anything that is not vegan. If a product is in front of me & I do not know its ingredients I do not eat it including a slice of bread that may or may not have eggs. I simply won’t eat it. It doesn’t have to be to be a big deal I just won’t eat it. I do not care what my behaviour does to the vegan movement I care about what my behaviour does to the other animals. 2% animal ingredients or a ‘leg of lamb’ is no different. Respect for the animals 100%
Valorie
May 10, 2011
I am a vegan because I don’t want to eat animals, so NO, I don’t want ANY animal products in my food. Animals don’t suffer 2% of their death. In fact, I think that restaurants and other food packaging should be easily identified as VEGAN. That would make shopping and eating out much more user friendly to vegans, and also to those with allergies against animal products. I didn’t come this far to compromise. If I can’t get it vegan, I don’t get it.
Valorie
May 10, 2011
I am a vegan because I don’t want to eat animals, so NO, I don’t want ANY animal products in my food. Animals don’t suffer 2% of their death. In fact, I think that restaurants and other food packaging should be easily identified as VEGAN. That would make shopping and eating out much more user friendly to vegans, and also to those with allergies against animal products. I didn’t come this far to compromise. If I can’t get it vegan, I don’t get it.
Holly
May 10, 2011
My friends & family know full well what they are getting into when they go out to dinner with me. Eating out is risky behavior for this vegan! I am an ethical vegan, and am completely uninterested in having my food tainted. Eating out should be a pleasurable experience, and I make my needs known politely.
Holly
May 10, 2011
My friends & family know full well what they are getting into when they go out to dinner with me. Eating out is risky behavior for this vegan! I am an ethical vegan, and am completely uninterested in having my food tainted. Eating out should be a pleasurable experience, and I make my needs known politely.
Monica
May 10, 2011
I don’t understand how any organization that says it promotes animal rights can go hand in hand with consciously choosing to consume animal products. The more I learn about these large agencies (and the more junk mail ($$$) I receive because I’m an animal rights activist), the more tuned out I am from anything considered mainstream in the animal advocacy sector.
I’m a vegan – I don’t want anybody slipping me anything that is made from an animal that was considered a simple commodity for profit, and I’m not going to deliberately do so to please anyone. These are our brethren, not our food. I realize that in this society we inadvertently consume animal products simply because they have become inherent in just about everything we use to live – that’s bad enough for me. For Peta to promote this kind of thinking, as if it’s going to save animals, makes me ashamed that I supported their efforts for so many years. Direct action is where my money goes now. I let them know it, too.
Monica
May 10, 2011
I don’t understand how any organization that says it promotes animal rights can go hand in hand with consciously choosing to consume animal products. The more I learn about these large agencies (and the more junk mail ($$$) I receive because I’m an animal rights activist), the more tuned out I am from anything considered mainstream in the animal advocacy sector.
I’m a vegan – I don’t want anybody slipping me anything that is made from an animal that was considered a simple commodity for profit, and I’m not going to deliberately do so to please anyone. These are our brethren, not our food. I realize that in this society we inadvertently consume animal products simply because they have become inherent in just about everything we use to live – that’s bad enough for me. For Peta to promote this kind of thinking, as if it’s going to save animals, makes me ashamed that I supported their efforts for so many years. Direct action is where my money goes now. I let them know it, too.
Gary Smith
May 10, 2011
Here’s a real life example of how what PETA said is being interpreted. I grabbed this off of Quarry Girl’s latest blog post. This is from one her readers:
“Although I have mixed feelings about PETA, I VERY MUCH LIKE their “A Note About Small Amounts of Animal Products i…n Foods,” which I just read today for the first time! In fact, reading/thinking about this Note actually gave me the ‘nudge’ I needed to finally justify ordering Dal again from/at Indian restaurants! (Dal is a SCRUMPTIOUS lentil dish which, I understand, is traditionally made with butter and/or cream, although I would imagine that the amount used would not be great.) I have refrained from ordering Dal for several years, but will henceforth allow myself the pleasure/benefits of enjoying it again! So nice to realize that I can savor such dishes again and STILL claim to eat a PREDOMINANTLY vegan diet! : )”
Gary Smith
May 10, 2011
Here’s a real life example of how what PETA said is being interpreted. I grabbed this off of Quarry Girl’s latest blog post. This is from one her readers:
“Although I have mixed feelings about PETA, I VERY MUCH LIKE their “A Note About Small Amounts of Animal Products i…n Foods,” which I just read today for the first time! In fact, reading/thinking about this Note actually gave me the ‘nudge’ I needed to finally justify ordering Dal again from/at Indian restaurants! (Dal is a SCRUMPTIOUS lentil dish which, I understand, is traditionally made with butter and/or cream, although I would imagine that the amount used would not be great.) I have refrained from ordering Dal for several years, but will henceforth allow myself the pleasure/benefits of enjoying it again! So nice to realize that I can savor such dishes again and STILL claim to eat a PREDOMINANTLY vegan diet! : )”
quarrygirl
May 10, 2011
i am soooooooooo annoyed with PETA’s stance on this. people shouldn’t treat veganism willy nilly. always check ingredients! that’s what i do. and yeah, i prefer a separate fryer as well. sorry if i’m not all gross, PETA. i don’t like animal bits in me food.
quarrygirl
May 10, 2011
i am soooooooooo annoyed with PETA’s stance on this. people shouldn’t treat veganism willy nilly. always check ingredients! that’s what i do. and yeah, i prefer a separate fryer as well. sorry if i’m not all gross, PETA. i don’t like animal bits in me food.
Mitzi Ocean
May 10, 2011
I consider the individual animal, I envision, their suffering questioning eyes. I equate them to a family member, for indeed all living beings are my family. We are living in a world where the animal holocaust is being perpetuated all around us, but i refuse to take part in it, not even half a percent!! My mother’s family, (save for her, one sister and one uncle) were all murdered in Auschwitz. So if you have trouble to understand how I feel about animals. Then what if it was my grandmother’s tortured body cooked on that grill? Should I be more concerned about the waiter cleaning the grill (in truth even that might not be enough for me), better to order salad). The thought is painful & repulsive. I’d explain with love and tolerance how and why I feel and give them one of the vegan pamphlets that I carry in my bag for just this purpose. Living vegan is not a diet, it is enlightenment, being connected to our collective consciousness, and should never be ignored, lest we lose our light, and we must always go towards the light on our path and not back into the darkness of ignorance and thoughtlessness. Empathy and ethics can not be a sometimes hobby, vegan is 100% who we are all the time. I like the allegory, of “a little child molestation or rape…” No percentage of the animal holocaust is acceptable!!! p.s. I do have trouble eating around others ‘meat’ and if possible eat at vegan eateries.
peace and light to all.
natala
May 10, 2011
I’ve never had someone that was upset for me ordering a vegan meal – and more so I have a lot more dietary restrictions – I can’t have oil or sugar and I don’t eat gluten. I just don’t see the need, I think we (being some vegans) project what we believe to be an inconvenience on others – when it is really just us who are still uncomfortable in stating what we want, and not being ashamed (and proud) of being vegan. I found that when I was just 100% comfortable and absolute about being vegan I had a much easier time just asking for what I wanted. If it were anything else – we would not have this discussion, my husband is deathly allergic to nuts, I don’t think “well if he has a little bit it won’t hurt, and it will make the place we’re eating feel better”. In the end though – I don’t see it as a problem, and if it is – don’t eat at that establishment any longer.
natala
May 10, 2011
I’ve never had someone that was upset for me ordering a vegan meal – and more so I have a lot more dietary restrictions – I can’t have oil or sugar and I don’t eat gluten. I just don’t see the need, I think we (being some vegans) project what we believe to be an inconvenience on others – when it is really just us who are still uncomfortable in stating what we want, and not being ashamed (and proud) of being vegan. I found that when I was just 100% comfortable and absolute about being vegan I had a much easier time just asking for what I wanted. If it were anything else – we would not have this discussion, my husband is deathly allergic to nuts, I don’t think “well if he has a little bit it won’t hurt, and it will make the place we’re eating feel better”. In the end though – I don’t see it as a problem, and if it is – don’t eat at that establishment any longer.
Mitzi Ocean
May 10, 2011
Natala, I agree with you!! and BTW I am gluten-free too (Celiac)and also intolerant to soy, oil and some nuts too and hypoglycemic. But I’d eat gluten before eating non-vegan, – better that I suffer, my choice, then pay for the suffering of innocent beings. If I ate flesh, even by mistake, I’d find it impossible to live with that thought!
Mitzi Ocean
May 10, 2011
Natala, I agree with you!! and BTW I am gluten-free too (Celiac)and also intolerant to soy, oil and some nuts too and hypoglycemic. But I’d eat gluten before eating non-vegan, – better that I suffer, my choice, then pay for the suffering of innocent beings. If I ate flesh, even by mistake, I’d find it impossible to live with that thought!
Rattasn Deep
May 10, 2011
I feel that if one is a Vegan as a way of life where one is abstaining from animal products so as to honor all life forms (Ethical Vegan) then eating any little bit of non-vegetarian food is inappropriate not withstanding what PETA or any one else says. That includes not using any animal products for ones clothing like belts, shoes silk clothes etc.
If one is a Vegan for health reasons then it is a different matter and the choice is with the individual.
Whatever any one says we must always honor the free will of all beings including humans and have no right to impose our views on any one else. I am a Vegan after a long history of being a non vegetarian, however it came from within when I realized my own Divinity and recognized the divinity in every one and every thing else.
Rattasn Deep
May 10, 2011
I feel that if one is a Vegan as a way of life where one is abstaining from animal products so as to honor all life forms (Ethical Vegan) then eating any little bit of non-vegetarian food is inappropriate not withstanding what PETA or any one else says. That includes not using any animal products for ones clothing like belts, shoes silk clothes etc.
If one is a Vegan for health reasons then it is a different matter and the choice is with the individual.
Whatever any one says we must always honor the free will of all beings including humans and have no right to impose our views on any one else. I am a Vegan after a long history of being a non vegetarian, however it came from within when I realized my own Divinity and recognized the divinity in every one and every thing else.
Dr Bob Bacher
May 11, 2011
OK sure, lets make a new category of vegans… We can call it the Carnivovegan diet!
I really can not believe my eyes when I read this. I have been vegan most of my life and never cared what others thought about it! Whats up with PETA? Are they running for political office or something???!!! DOesn’t make any sense at all! Period!
Dr Bob Bacher
May 11, 2011
OK sure, lets make a new category of vegans… We can call it the Carnivovegan diet!
I really can not believe my eyes when I read this. I have been vegan most of my life and never cared what others thought about it! Whats up with PETA? Are they running for political office or something???!!! DOesn’t make any sense at all! Period!
Trista Dombroski
May 11, 2011
I cannot believe that Peta would even CONSIDER such a statement!!!! I don’t care what anyone says or thinks about the way I eat – my way of life isn’t depended on people’s opinion of me being “difficult or dogmatic”. This is about ethics – NOT about being “popular”. I don’t think it would “discourage” people at all from becoming vegan – you become vegan because of how you see animals being mistreated and abused and all their suffering in the name of eating meat, dairy, eggs, etc. I was happy to turn vegan when I learned that I would no longer be a part of this! I never even considered how “limiting” my diet would be afterwards…it didn’t and still doesn’t matter to me…and it certainly doesn’t matter to me if people think I’m being “difficult or dogmatic”!
Trista Dombroski
May 11, 2011
I cannot believe that Peta would even CONSIDER such a statement!!!! I don’t care what anyone says or thinks about the way I eat – my way of life isn’t depended on people’s opinion of me being “difficult or dogmatic”. This is about ethics – NOT about being “popular”. I don’t think it would “discourage” people at all from becoming vegan – you become vegan because of how you see animals being mistreated and abused and all their suffering in the name of eating meat, dairy, eggs, etc. I was happy to turn vegan when I learned that I would no longer be a part of this! I never even considered how “limiting” my diet would be afterwards…it didn’t and still doesn’t matter to me…and it certainly doesn’t matter to me if people think I’m being “difficult or dogmatic”!
Brandon Becker
May 11, 2011
If there is an minute ingredient that may or may not be animal-derived, such as mono and diglycerides in bread and there are no other options available that are clearly vegan, I don’t have a problem with eating it. However, this is much different than choosing something that most definitely is animal-derived, such as bread with casein or whey or something obvious. From an advocacy perspective, getting others to cut out the main products – animal flesh, milk (including cheese), eggs, honey, etc, should be our focus since these are the reason there are byproducts but this does not mean we should condone byproduct consumption.
Brandon Becker
May 11, 2011
If there is an minute ingredient that may or may not be animal-derived, such as mono and diglycerides in bread and there are no other options available that are clearly vegan, I don’t have a problem with eating it. However, this is much different than choosing something that most definitely is animal-derived, such as bread with casein or whey or something obvious. From an advocacy perspective, getting others to cut out the main products – animal flesh, milk (including cheese), eggs, honey, etc, should be our focus since these are the reason there are byproducts but this does not mean we should condone byproduct consumption.
Wendy
May 11, 2011
I have bought dead animals and animal byproducts for my feline and canine companion animals, but when I identify as a vegan it’s for a reason. This is stupidly ridiculous. “Just a little” from each person on Earth would add up to a hell of a lot of “just a little dairy.” So I guess that the cows suffer just a little bit? The veal calves? The chickens?
What a bunch of crap. Maybe veganism would be a sight more accessible if everyone didn’t automatically equate it with PeTA and their celebrity-crazed, fat-phobic, sexist, racist “animal rights” campaigns.
Wendy
May 11, 2011
I have bought dead animals and animal byproducts for my feline and canine companion animals, but when I identify as a vegan it’s for a reason. This is stupidly ridiculous. “Just a little” from each person on Earth would add up to a hell of a lot of “just a little dairy.” So I guess that the cows suffer just a little bit? The veal calves? The chickens?
What a bunch of crap. Maybe veganism would be a sight more accessible if everyone didn’t automatically equate it with PeTA and their celebrity-crazed, fat-phobic, sexist, racist “animal rights” campaigns.
Mitzi Ocean
May 11, 2011
I NOTICED THAT THE COUNTER DOESN’T INCLUDE FISH. TOO MANY OF THESE POOR BEINGS MURDERED EVERY SECOND?
Mitzi Ocean
May 11, 2011
I NOTICED THAT THE COUNTER DOESN’T INCLUDE FISH. TOO MANY OF THESE POOR BEINGS MURDERED EVERY SECOND?